• “I can f*cking rock a checklist all day long. I can get in my masculine energy like no one’s business.”
• “If somebody wants to filter you through the lens of, “You’re not this because I said that,” just pay attention to their language. They’re telling you that that’s not what it is to them, but that does not have to be what it is to you.“
• “Know your business, know who you are, be about your business, and start using yourself as your person that you want to look up to.”
• “It’s not there for the human being, it’s for the admiration. Admiration is not the same as love. Admiration is fleeting. It’s emulation. Love is authentic. Love is real.“

JC: Sooooo, Shannon and I hit end on the podcast and started talking about the backend of business versus just focusing on the sales and marketing end. AND I just learned that Shannon is a project manager!

SW: I still am a project manager! We started talking about Tony Robbins and his concept of ‘burn the boat’, which I completely support for the person that is cut out to burn the boat. I am not the person that is cut out to burn the boat because when I start getting into a place where I’m freaking out about my finances, I’m not able to show up creatively and authentically and in a way that’s easy and allows flow for my business.

I can f*cking rock a checklist all day long. I can get in my masculine energy like no one’s business. But where I am actually able to relate to people is in my creative flow, and I can’t have balance and harmony between the masculine and feminine energy when I’m in desperation.

When I’m in desperation I come from a place of lack, and when I’m coming from a place of lack, that’s when I’m worried about money. So for me, burning the boat didn’t make sense. The idea of, “I’m just going to quit and take this leap,” did not work for me. It did not work for my marriage, didn’t work for my relationship, my mortgage, or any of these things that I have.

These days, it’s popular to advertise our sales and the fact that we’re quitting our jobs, but it’s not to negate the fact that I have women wanting to coach with me me that I’m turning away because they’re going to put their coaching sessions with me on a credit card, yet they don’t have the money to pay their monthly bills. I can’t, in good conscience, say, “Yes, go ahead and do that. I support you and I believe you can do anything, but if you’re telling me that you’re crying every night and your husband and your relationship is dwindling and your clients are leaving you left and right, I feel obligated to ask you where your desperation is coming from.”

They’re saying that they can’t buy groceries and yet are going to put $2,500 on a credit card to pay me monthly for my coaching. No. I can’t, in good conscious, take that on.

JC: One hundred percent. I did a podcast episode on this recently talking about survival mode.

Chemically, when we get into survival mode we are not able to be our highest selves. Our brains are not functioning at the optimal level. When we’re in that lower vibration state of fear and anxiety and fight and flight and survival, everything’s a f*cking problem.

Everything’s a problem because cognitively, your brain cannot function in the way that you need it to in order to be objective, in order to look at the bigger picture, and in order to find actual solutions. And some of us are addicted to survival mode. That was the chaos of my life way back. I loved being in that high anxiety. I would go to work and bartend and think, “I’m going to just turn and burn and I’m going to make all these drinks and it’s going to be ahhhmazing!”

My cortisol levels were off the freakin’ charts, I’m sure. That became my emotional home.

There are women who will say they really want coaching. They want to invest in themselves. They’re seeing all of these messages inside Facebook groups and hearing it on podcasts…

Burn the boat!

Take the leap!

Just jump!

Quit the job…

SW: Or you’re not an entrepreneur if you have another job. You’re not an entrepreneur if you have a side gig. What the f*ck? I want to know who defined that because it’s rampant in everyone’s mind. I built my business from the bottom up. I didn’t have anybody help me. I wrote my book by myself and I figured out how to publish it on Amazon. I didn’t have anybody help me. So you mean to tell me that it illlegitimizes what I’m doing in an entrepreneurial capacity just because I’m allowed to fund myself versus having an angel investor?! Someone explain that to me.

JC: Is that what people were telling you?

SW: So I went live on this two or three weeks ago for the very first time. My coach was like, “Wait a holy freaking f*cking second. You do everything that you do in your business and you also have a job? People NEED to know this.”

I was I was fearful! I was like, “Oh my God, no one’s going to want to work with me. They’re going to know that you’re not an entrepreneur or whatever.” And it happened! I had people private messaging me and giving me these definitions and sh*t. That’s cool if that’s how you define an entrepreneur, that I needed to risk not being able to pay my mortgage, lose my health insurance, and not have a 401K all before I was ready to. That’s your definition. That’s not my definition.

But yeah, I just went live on it and talked about it for the very first time and I had so many people reach out to me saying, “I’m so afraid to talk about the fact that I want to be a coach, the fact that I want to write a book, and the fact that I want to start a podcast because I’m afraid people will find out that I also have a job and not want to work with me.” My response to that is, number 1, I’m doing it right now. I’m a living, breathing testament, so there’s that. And number two, you can do whatever you want.

If somebody wants to filter you through the lens of, ‘you’re not this because I said that’, just pay attention to their language. They’re telling you that that’s not what it is to them, but that does not have to be what it is to you.

JC: Yes, that’s their belief. It doesn’t have to be yours. I appreciate that you’re saying this. Challenge that their beliefs don’t have to be yours. If it doesn’t fit, it doesn’t fit.

When I was doing network marketing, at one point, I was like, “I’m going to get a side hustle.” I didn’t necessarily go out and seek it, but this girl reached out to me and said, “Hey, I know you used to bartend. We need some help at the catering hall and you can work whenever you want,” and secretly, that was my saving grace. I remember sitting in the back folding napkins thinking, “This is the happiest money I’ve ever made,” because Network Marketing had gone up and down. The business model had changed and the way that they were selling products had changed, which meant that income was less stable. 

I was so grateful to have that second stream of income to be able to start putting money away. It gave me total peace of mind to truly step into my power as an entrepreneur and a few months later, leave network marketing and create my own coaching business because I actually had some additional seed money to go ahead and do that.

I think this is such an important conversation because I was TERRIFIED. I didn’t want anyone to know that I was doing some additional bartending because I believed that if people knew, then it would look like I wasn’t successful in network marketing, which wasn’t the case.

I thought it would invalidate who I was showing up as, as a coach, and all the things that I was talking about in my network marketing company and all the success that I was having.

SW: Yeah, and it’s not to diminish the true bravery it takes to quit your job and allow yourself to be your primary source of income. When your business gets that way, hallelujah!!! Shout out to those people.

But it’s also not to diminish what it is that you’re doing if you have a side hustle. Publishing a book and the amount of money that it takes to have a cover made, get the copies out there, as well as having photo shoots done and being able to do it with ease, there is NO amount of money that I would put on that price tag to have my peace of mind. None.

I think that there is a part of this online space that’s this facade and people will see through it. If you are fake or hiding in any area of your life and you’re wondering what’s up with that, there’s some part of you that’s energetically being diminished because you’re not being real.

It doesn’t invalidate who you are as an entrepreneur and what it is that you do.

It doesn’t make you a bad coach.

It doesn’t give you any less life.

If you are somebody who says, “I know that if I were to burn the boat, I would go down with the ship,” it doesn’t mean that you aren’t an entrepreneur.

It doesn’t mean you don’t have balls.

It doesn’t mean you don’t have courage.

It just means that you know yourself well enough to say, “This is my way and that’s all I need to know.”

JC: When I did my DISC test, which you can find on the Tony Robbins website, it was incredibly eye opening for me. They all mean different things…

The D stands for dominant, direct, demanding, decisive, determined, and somebody who’s a doer. So if you’re a high D, then you’re probably more in that leadership role.

The I stands for inspiring, influencing, impressionable, interactive, impressive, involved, so that’s like outgoing and people-driven.

The S stands for supportive, stable, steady, and leveled.

The C stands for cautious, so calculating, competent, conscientious, and careful.

I’m a really high D and also a really high C, so that gave me so much insight into why I have, as entrepreneur, internal conflicts where I’m like, “I’m the visionary, but I’m also the integrator. We’re going to do this really cool thing, but how are we gonna do it?”

So that was really amazing to understand because previously I had a business partner, and I don’t know what hers was, but I can tell you that she was not a very high C. I have nothing but love for her and it gave us great balance, but for me, created a lot of internal conflict because that’s not how I operate in business.

I’m not somebody that says, “Tell everybody about the program and then we’ll figure out how to build it after.” Naaah, I need to have some structure. We’ve got to have a plan in place before we dive headfirst into it. And both work! There’s no right or wrong.

What I’m getting at here is that the more that you understand your own personality type, your own values, and the things that drive you, the better you’ll be able to sort through all of the messages that you get on social media from different Facebook groups and podcasts and coaches who say you have to do it this way.

They are filtering the world through their belief system and through their personality, so you can take what works for you and leave the rest.

Whenever I’m coaching, I try to frequently remind people that this is all for your consideration. If something really polarizes you against me, don’t just necessarily throw it away. Look at it, see why it triggers you, and then maybe throw it away if it doesn’t align for you. The reason that we kind of got into this whole conversation was because I had made a post and I said:

There are so many different things that people can mean. I have friends who do $500,000 in sales. Another friend does a million dollars in sales, and the one who did $500,000 in sales actually had a more profitable business. It’s not all about the million dollar launches if you’re spending half that money in advertising. I have a less desirable business on paper because everyone’s so obsessed with sales, but I’m actually keeping more of my money, which is what makes a business run!

SW: Take what you want and leave the rest! It’s all for your consideration. I just want everybody to be mindful. We keep saying mindset before strategy, right? The strategy is obviously important. If you’re running a business, you need to know your numbers.

But yeah, we look at these people and we put them on pedestals once we see the sparkly words on social media of what these people are launching at and selling out. They may very well be selling out and they may very well be having six figure launches in sales, but it’s important for you guys to know your business.

You have these figures that are inspiring like the Tony Robbins of the world or the Gary Vaynerchuks of the world. Gary’s like, “Work 24/7. Always be on your hustle,” and I’m like, “Gary, I just heard that you said you went on a vacation for 10 days and you didn’t look at your phone once.” I love them and I think they’re brilliant, but there are aspects of their business that don’t work for me. And there are aspects of others people’s businesses that I look up to and admire in talking about their money so fluidly online, but there is this emulation factor that people want to get to that puts you in desperation mode.

Not holding these people up on a pedestal and feeling like you’re not accomplishing anything if you’re not doing it their way. Know your business, know who you are, be about your business, and start using yourself as your person that you want to look up to.

JC: I made a post not too long ago about the idea of your value as a coach not being determined by the number of clients that you have. It’s not determined by the sales that you have at the end of the month. They’re completely separate. That’s your skills and abilities as a coach and your skills and ability as a marketer. Those are two different things. You do want to learn how to become a great marketer because otherwise you’re going be the Internet’s best kept secret, but don’t you dare discredit what you’re doing just because you’re not having launches like so and so.

SW: Yeah! Or that you have 150 followers on your Instagram feed. I always say to my clients,

“Hear my heart when I say this to you, but how dare you undermine the fact that you have two clients. How dare you undermine the value in the life that they’re bringing to you and the fact that they have a husband or a wife or some kids. They have a whole life that you’re impacting every single time you get on that phone call and you’re having a conversation with them. How dare you undermine the fact that you hold a precious gift in your hand. Who cares if it’s two people? Maybe down the road it will be five people, but right now, the reason why it’s not five is because you’re not appreciating the two.”

JC: A freaking men. One of my clients just did a 17K launch with 150 people in her Facebook group because she just decided. She made a decision that she was going to show up for them. There are coaches who are kind of like, “150? I need more.” They scoff at that.

If you’re not willing to show up for the one person, you’re not going to get 100, you’re not going to get 1,000, you’re damn sure not going to get 100,000. Those are human beings with real lives.

SW: Absolutely. We’re so obsessed with the highlight reel these days that we’re always trying to look for the marketing tactic to get more and be more, but you can’t actually be more if you’re not embodying the type of business that you want to have.

I do personal one-on-one coaching inside of all of my programs because I give a sh*t. I’m like, “How does that make you feel? What’s coming up for you? How can we finesse and fluidly flow through that? I give a f*ck about what’s happening inside your brain right now because when you leave me and you’re having a meltdown five seconds from now, I want to be very clear about what’s going on inside your head so that you can discern it as being what’s actual and what’s not actual.”

When we start looking at our lives through the highlight reel of, “I want to get more followers and I want to have this amazing Instagram feed because of the perception that I want it to portray,” trust me when I say to you that people will read through your perception and know that your intention is icky.

It’s not there for the human being, it’s for the admiration. Admiration is not the same as love. Admiration is fleeting. It’s emulation. Love is authentic. Love is real.

JC: Tony talks about the six human needs and that so many people are focused on acquiring significance, but only because they think it’s going to bring them love and connection, which is what they actually want.

SW: Yes! When I first started life coaching, people asked what my purpose was and I said, “Love and connection,” they would be like, “Oh, lame.” I don’t know how else to dwindle it down. There are no greater words than love and connection.

I have people come to me all the time and say, “You’re just so authentically you and your confidence and the way you cut your hair and your tattoos and blah blah blah.” That’s not for appeal. It’s just because that’s who I am and it wasn’t always that way. I used to think tattoos were gross. I used to have judgment about them. I’m a redhead. I shaved my head. There are certain factors I had to go through because I was worried about perception. The minute I stopped worrying about perception, people were coming to me asking about authenticity and connection. I was like, “I’m just actually being me, so what is it going to take for you to be you?”

You cutting your hair like me is not you. I mean, unless it is because shaving your head is awesome and I like it, but it’s not about a look. I know there’s a lot of influencers out there and I’m not saying that it’s not a sustainable business. Some of them make six figures and they have amazing social media feeds. It’s not to say that we don’t applaud you for your craft, but if you’re a coach and you’re looking to be somebody that is running a perception-based business, then that’s how you’re going to coach, too.

JC: So funny. I just had a conversation with one of my clients. She was hearing that a lot of people were experiencing burnout and saying, “You want to avoid burnout? Get in your feminine flow!”

She was having a ton of success and going, “But I’m doing something wrong because I’m not being a goddess. I’m not in my feminine flow.”

I said to her, “You’re having all this success, people are coming to you, and people are obsessed with your work. How do you know you’re not in your feminine right now?”

And she’s like, “Oh my God! I thought I needed to grow my hair out and wear a goddess dress!”

Those are the pictures that we paint in our minds! That is literally one of the greatest coaching moments and one of the greatest lessons. I had breakthrough in that, too. I didn’t realize how much we create these boxes for ourselves.

Who came up with this rule? Where did this come from? Is it like Disney princess sh*t? Is it Greek Goddess stuff?!

As soon as she locked into that she was like, “Oh shiiiit, yeah I am in my feminine! The way that I express it looks a little different than other people and that’s cool.”

SW: I love that so, so much. It’s something that I went through, too. I remember my brother saying to me, which I love my brother first and foremost, but when I cut my hair the first time I did it  incrementally from shoulder length hair to an inverted bob. Then my hair stylist was like, “How do you feel about me shaving your head?” And I was like, “I don’t feel anything about that, actually. I feel zero. Don’t do that.” And he’s like, “Why?! It’s going to look fierce on you.”

I went home and I told my mom what I was gonna do and my brother was like, “I would never date a woman that shaves her hair,” and I said to him, “Well that’s good because that would be weird.” I went back and I just had this energy about it.

Number one…it’s hair and it’ll grow back.

Number two… I feel really good about it! I feel in my energy about it.

Going back to what we’re talking about previously of removing the label and the stigma of what being in our feminine energy actually means. Some of the women I coach are like, “I just want to be in my flow,” and I’m like, “But you’re not getting anything done! Your flow is causing you to be like a feather, floating from place to place.”

You need to be able to have harmony between your masculine and feminine energy if you’re trying to run a business, so you shaming the fact that you have a to do list and things that you need to get done and you shaming that you can’t have a manicure every day or whatever you’re making feminine mean, is causing you to not really run a business. You’re just kind of pretending.

Allowing yourself to have harmony between these two energies and to redefine it is you being more in your energy, whatever that is masculine or feminine. You can still be flowing while also saying, “I can rock a to do list like a motherf*cker OR I can hire someone that can help me.” Period.

JC: Period. End of story. You’re a beautiful embodiment of both of those because you show up in your feminine and your feminine looks the way that it looks for you and it’s not what everyone else’s looks like. Without even intending to, you’re giving other people permission to be who they are by being authentic and who you are.